The 358 Norma is a sure mag round, but expensive ammo and brass. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. necked up to .35 caliber. Posts: 46,063. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. A medium variable in the 3-9X or 2.5-10X range should be enough scope for elk hunting. Norma Oryx .35 Whelen 250gr | Norma You know the kind with the locking bolt. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. Thinking of a medium bore with a bit of thump.9.3 x 62 holds some exotic mystique for me being its use on African large game but I am thinking realistically .366 cant be that much of an advantage over .358 can it? The case capacity of the .350 Rigby is very similar to that of the .358 Norma Magnum, and the performance is likewise similar. I bought it as a moose rifle but never got drawn in ten years. In an age of ultra-specializatio in every field, and especially rifles, such versatility is almost an anachronism. The .35's are just plain superior for CXP3 class game. First, it will do everything the .338 will, and a bit more. Well, it betters the velocity of the .35 Whelen by at least 200 fps, much the same as the .338 Winchester Magnum does to the .338-06. This standard (.30-06) length magnum cartridge drives a 250 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2799 fps with 4350 ft. lbs. I have long been something of a .35 caliber fan, but I have to admit that I believe the reason for the general lack of public acceptance of all but the least powerful .35's is, in a word, recoil. So when it comes to penetrating thick hide and heavy bone, one could see where the .350 Rigby could benefit from a heavier bullet, say a premium 250-grain with a SD of .279. The recent introduction of a Hornady LeverEvolution factory load for the .35 Remington has usefully improved its ballistics. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. There are places where .22 centerfires are legal for elk. A cross-section of loads for the .358 Norma Magnum include the (1) Sierra 125-grain JHP, (2) Sierra 170 FMJ, (3) Speer 180, (4) 200-grain cast bullet and a (5) Sierra 200 roundnose. On a 600 pound animal like a big bull elk the optimum game range of the .308 (180 grain bullet at a MV of 2610 fps) is a useful 175 yards. My .375 H&H seemed quite adequate. He never questioned the adequacy of his .270 for elk, nor do I, but he was also a lifelong .30-06 fan and privately conceded its superiority for elk-sized game. Thats the primary game for many of us, but one size doesnt fit all. Publisher, Kevin Steele is with Brett Marquardt from Streamlight Inc. discussing the new Streamlight Pro Tac 2.0, the latest edition in the Pro Tac series. figure of 0.300 is desirable, and comparing similar cartridges, youll see the .350 Rigby comes in a bit behind the other popular choices of the day. Kali Parmley, Editor-in-chief of Bakccountry Hunter speaks with Bret Maffet of Franchi Firearms to discuss the all new Momentum All Terrain Elite. Bertram Brass from Australia is a good source when you can get it, and Quality Cartridge makes a run of .350 Rigby every few years, but you could be waiting a considerable amount of time. Where the .338 Winchester drives its 250-grain bullet to 2650 fps, the .358 Norma beats that figure by 100 fps or so, delivering over 4,200 ft.-lbs. Mag. What should the discerning collector look for in a potential buy? Behind the Bullet: .350 Rigby Magnum - An Official Journal Of The NRA .358 Norma N/A Centerfire Rifle Ammo For Sale at Classic Firearms The .318 Westley Richards was a highly popular choice at that time, and it drives a 250-grain bullet of .330-inch diameter, with a SD of 0.328, and the .375 Holland & Holland uses a 300-grain bullet of nominal diameter with a SD of 0.305; both are renowned for their penetration. Of the three, only the .358 Norma has not become a standard chambering. Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. of muzzle energy. The .358 Norma Mag. Heres a look at 10 of the most flexible long-range hunting cartridges. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. Size aside, American elk are very tough creatures. From left: (1) .35 Remington, (2) .358 Winchester and (3) .358 Norma Magnum. 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62 - 24hourcampfire But starting in the late 1950s, the .338 bore size gained considerable tractionthanks to the emergence of the .338 Winchester Magnum. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. Among my own favorites for the .358 Norma are the Nosler Partitions in both 225 and 250 grains, Swift A-Frames (225, 250, 280) and various Woodleighs, including the unique 310-grain Weldcore. Behind the Bullet: .358 Norma Magnum - An Official Journal Of The NRA Either way, the Newton is the unbelted twin of the .358 Norma. Got a nice .270 Win MTN Rifle donor 700. While most of the .35 caliber rifle cartridges are powerful medium bore numbers designed for use on large (CXP3) game like elk and moose, the most popular .35 caliber rifle cartridge is the .35 Remington. Its a great gun for moose and elk, bear and boar, and for bison as well. Why the public abandoned it so quickly is a mystery to me. and .32 Rem. Honestly, Ive taken as many elk with the .30-06 as with any other cartridge, and the farthest at 350 yards was no problem. I am not into the current long-range fad, especially on powerful animals like elk. With such a variety of bullets, you would think the skys the limit in terms of different loads, but there are other factors to consider. It is, as you say, a thumper. Thats a question I just dont understand. The .350 Magnum has a case length of 2.742 inches, and an overall cartridge length 3.44 inches, so it will feel at home in a magnum-length receiver. From there, you can work up until you find a load that gives you the accuracy and velocity you want. Opening up a boltface on a standard action is NOT a difficult job for a decent gunsmith and does not affect the strength or viability of the action one WHIT. Your rifle is your most important hunting tool, and knowing how to properly clean and store it when hunting season comes to a close is critical in keeping it in tip-top shape. In many areas a 100-pound deer might be normal, but mule deer and whitetail bucks exist that are triple that size. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. Yet, that bore diameter produces some of the best hunting cartridges available. To get started, click the link below to visit mymagnow.com and learn how to access your digital magazine. Clearly, for the hunter seeking heavy game and willing to accept this level of recoil, the .358 Norma Magnum deserves far more popularity than it has received. Mag. Actual weight depends on subspecies, nutrition, and age, but 600 pounds is a good starting point for grownup bulls and twice the size of an unusually large deer. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. This list gives some idea of the .358 Normas status today: Those rifles rarely seem to come on the market. I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. The major problem with light loads is getting enough pressure to provide a good gas seal. Twenty years ago, I might have said .338 Winchester Magnum was the perfect choice for elk. If you happen to have a .35 and don't mind the extra recoil, there is no denying that it will flat get the job done. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction; that is one of the physical laws of our universe. Also, after a few dozen elk hunts, Ive seen many taken effectively with lighter cartridges. They truly were ahead of their time, as they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool. THe 35 whelen did have a little more power than the 358. And those sentiments can be an awful lot of fun. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. The Whelen is a more sensible choice, but the Rigby isnt about sensibility, its about nostalgia and a connection to a bygone age. I was used to the 30-06 parent cases (.270, 25-06, etc) so that is what I decided on. Still have a 9.3 (so I guess it "won"). In more recent times, the 1994 release of the .450 Rigby gave dangerous game hunters a bit more bullet weight than the .416 Rigby and has developed a small but devout following among both professional hunters and their clients alike. America's Rejected Caliber | An Official Journal Of The NRA Among the .35 caliber cartridges popular in the United States, the .358 offered a definite step up in performance; the .35 Remingtonthat popular woods rifleis much slower than the .358, and though the .35 Whelen has been among us since 1922, it would remain a wildcat until 1988. Original Schultz & Larsens had substantial freebore to keep pressures down, and Normas specifications for the cartridge called for it. In any mass-production rifle, either the .375 or .338, or both, will be found as a standard chambering. I will go with the 35 Whelen BUT 9.3x62 will be cool due that you already have a 350 Rem mag, if you're opening the bolt face the 358 STA better option than Norma and 338-06 could be a nice choice too. The .358 Norma established its reputation in high-end hunting rifles like this Schultz & Larsen Model 65DL. .358 Norma Magnum - Wikipedia G. Joined: Sep 2009. Essentially a .338 Magnum with a bigger mouth, the .358 Norma can push 250-grain bullets faster. By coincidence, in that same year, Norma Projektilfabrik of Sweden introduced its own heavyweight champion, the .358 Norma Magnum. The 6.5mm Creedmoor and the old 6.5x55 are sound minimal choices, adequate to 300 yards. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." There are specialized situations where close shots are the norm, but most often, the ideal elk rifle should have enough versatility for shots out to 300 yards and change. The .35 Whelen is a fine elk cartridge. But there is no compelling reason to consider a caliber larger than .35. Here in North America big game starts with deer. So, I've hunted elk with less ambitious rounds. Shortening the 2.85-inches long .375 H&H case wasnt exactly a revolutionary ideathat little-known .275 H&H so closely resembles the design of the half-century younger 7mm Remington Magnum that its uncannybut with the Winchester marketing machine the concept was brought to the forefront. My 35 Whelen will run 250gr partitions at 2700 fps with power pro 2000 powder. Perhaps thats why it has survived. I have needed to reach 400 yards, but never a whole bunch farther. Cartridges of .25 caliber and below are not ideal elk cartridges, especially if a big bull is a potential. Hunting Shack 35WHELEN1N Game King 35 Whelen 225 gr Sierra GameKing Spitzer Boat-Tail - 20rd Box. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Bertram Brass from Australia is a good source when you can get it, and Quality Cartridge makes a run of .350 Rigby every few years, but you could be waiting a considerable amount of time. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. And the hunter must have full confidence in his or her choice. In the mid 70's I picked up a 358Norma. The .35 Win., .35 Newton and .350 Griffin & Howe Mag. That list, by the way, is in ascending order of power. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. The .35 Whelen is accurate, hits hard, penetrates deep, shoots flat and recoils mildly. My vote is for the .35 Whelen. I'm sending my 270 tikka off to JES rebore to get it punched out to 35 whelen. I am also looking at building a 358 Norma Mag on a model 110 Savage action, formerly a 300 Win mag, and start from scratch with the stock ( bedding and pillar) and make it a tolerable shooter even if a bit heavy. It is easy to forget that the .358 bore comes in an extremely varied range of twist rates from 1:16 to 1:12. Read today's "The Armed Citizen" entry for real stories of law-abiding citizens, past and present, who used their firearms to save lives. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. The M700 has been a popular action for building a rifle in .358 STA, a wildcat based on the 8mm Remington Magnum. The bullet was the then-new Trophy Bonded 250-grain Bear Claw. Sure, you can get away with it, especially with todays extra-heavy bullets, but I think its foolish. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. In the 80s, when Jack Carter was making his Trophy Bonded Bearclaw bullet by hand, I did some elk hunting with the 240-grain .375 version. He, too, could have been one of the greats. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. I rely on, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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For anyone with an experimental or fanciful turn of mind, the .358 Norma and the many .358-inch diameter bullets are a gold mine. was designed for the American market, but sadly no American riflemaker ever chambered the cartridge in a cataloged gun. The .35 Whelen fires a larger .358 bullet and is therefore right at the cusp of being a big game caliber and is capable of handling everything except . These include some of my favorites, such as the .358 Winchester and .45-70. The writings of Robert Ruark certainly helped the reputation of the cartridge and the company, as Ruark put his young PH Harry Selby and the .416 Rigby rifle he carried on a pedestal. Energy figures have it knocking at the door of 375H&H. .35 caliber rifle cartridges have been around practically forever without ever really becoming popular. Where does the .358 Norma sit, in comparison to the more popular cartridges in its class? [/quote]. Mag. it is complicated further by a requirement for different burning rate powders. In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. Shorter and more common than the magnum-length receiver needed for the .375 and .300 Holland & Holland Magnum, the Winchester Model 70s and Remington Model 721s gave a new level of performance when chambered for the new magnums. We owe a debt of gratitude to the engineers at the British firm of Holland & Holland; though it is lost to history who exactly designed the belted magnum cartridge, the .275 and .375 Holland & Holland Magnums were game changers. I did kill a ton of squirels with pistol bullets and a little 700X, it would shoot little cloverleafs at 50 yrds. Subscriber Services. Faster 6.5sthe new 6.5 PRC, the old .264, or the super-fast .26 Nosler and 6.5-300 Weatherbywill deliver more energy and open the range envelope a bit. For this reason, anyone acquiring a .358 Norma should start low with every load and work up slowly and carefully. It put an exclamation point on that lung shot. Mention the Rigby name to any rifle aficionado, and odds are that the famous .416 Rigby cartridge will come quickly to mind, and with good reason; it is an undeniable classic. Many western hunters annually take elk with 6mms and .25s. Loved by gun guys and rejected by the huddled masses, this is perhaps the most underappreciated cartridge of them all. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. Is there a way to find out what year it is by serial #? So if you have a .375 (or larger) and a yen to take it elk hunting, be my guest. The .270 WSM and .270 Weatherby deliver more energy, but all three are fine. Any listing you find for H-4895 can be modified by loading only 60 percent of the published minimum to create some very comfortable loads. That being said, with much wider availability, and the higher . Released in 1959though there were no factory chambered rifles or factory loaded ammunition available for the new cartridgeNorma offered chamber reamers and new component brass for its new brainchild. An elk is bigger than anything most deer hunters have encountered, but theres still a variance; a cow for the freezer isnt much bigger than a very large deer, but a mature bull elk is different. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. If the .35 Rem. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. It is capable of driving a. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. from the 24" barrel of a Marlin 336XLR rifle. While I generally prefer the former over the latter, I think that both choices are effective. The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. with a similar 180-grain bullet. Gun guys recognize the potential in the .358. At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. Also, many of these hunters have the luxury of a long season close to home. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. Of the bullets used, several performed extremely well, including the Bear Claw and a Nosler 250-grain Partition. Does the power of the magnum offer much over the whelen in real life terms? If the .350 Rigby Magnum was effective in the golden era of safari, modern premium bullet designs will make it even better. An elk offers a large target, so extreme magnification shouldnt be necessary. Looks like I'll do a Whelen. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. 1 Item (s) Show per page. The long accepted story was that James V. Howe developed the cartridge in 1922 and named it in honor of his friend, gunwriter Col. Townsend Whelen. I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. In its 112-year lineage, it has probably taken more elk than all other cartridges combined. and is a good cartridge for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear or even elk. Tried and true. As it stands, it is most certainly on the edge of becoming obsolete. This means that the momentum of a rifle's reaction will exactly equal the momentum of the bullet and powder gasses ejected from the barrel. Blocker Outdoors Finisher gloves, headcovers and other accessories are available in Mossy Oak Bottomland and Mossy Oak Obsession NWTF camouflage patterns to match various turkey hunting terrain. Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. The big issue with the .350 Rigby Magnum is the lack of available ammunition. What Three Dozen Elk Cartridges Taught Me - Gun Digest Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. Out of stock View Details . To reach the .300 mark, youd need a 270-grain bullet (the North Fork and Woodleigh bullets come immediately to mind), but stabilization becomes an issue in the slower twists, and thats long been a problem in .35-caliber barrels. With such a wide range of both cast and jacketed bullets available, and todays variety in powders, the .358 Norma has an embarrassment of riches when it comes to load possibilities. cases. This is in sharp contrast to the overwhelming success of the .357/9mm handgun cartridges, whose popularity dates right to the beginning of the self-contained cartridge era. From the .35 Winchester (1903), .35 Remington (1906) and .351 Winchester Self-Loading (1907) to the later .358 Winchester (1955) and .350 Remington Magnum (1965), there has always been at least one .35-caliber cartridge in use. Cartridges that in many cases cannot match the killing power, at normal hunting ranges, of comparable .35's. We argue cartridges and calibers endlessly, but bullet choice matters. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. Today, rifles can be made very light, but that can also be overdone because light rifles are whippy and hard to control when youre out of breath and have to settle in for a quick shot. Your at the old delema again: does 200 fps matter to the deer. Today, it is strictly a custom proposition unless one of the original rifles chambered for it can be found. Heres a look at 10 of the most flexible long-range hunting cartridges. Also, the 35 Whelen will not do much that your 350 and 358 already do, if anything. They have almost all abandoned the cartridge. Essentially the .338 Winchester Magnum necked up to hold .358-inch bullets, the .358 Norma Magnum made all sorts of sense to a hunter in pursuit of large game, such as elk, moose and the great bears of the north. 35 whelen vs 358 norma mag vs 9.3 x 62 - 24hourcampfire My 8mm Remington Magnum was stocked in dense walnut and had a long barrel. The full spectrum of our many 7mms, from 7mm-08 and 7x57 on up to the fastest 7mm magnums, are also fine, but they are not magical giant-slayers. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. The 35 whelen and 358 winchester were the two I was torn between. There was a time when I questioned the adequacy of the .270 for elk. Make no mistake, the .30-06 is a powerful cartridge, but it doesnt beat you to death and can be built in the seven- to eight-pound range.

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